Feature
Actual “Stupidest Post Ever” on Bleeding Cool !!UPDATED!!
We Don’t like to Criticise, But… Dept.
For those of you unaware of Bleeding Cool, it is a comic, media comic and video website whose principal representative is a gentleman called Rich Johnston. At least that’s what we think his name is – Bleeding Cool has had so many misspellings, malapropisms, spoonerisms etc., that his name could actually be Rick Johnson, Rich Thompson, or even Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson. Bleeding Cool is an unsavoury stew of stuff that ranges from the fully made up (most of Rich’s” theories” about comics), through inspired guesswork, to the occasional news item that is, well, news.
“Campy” Joker by Neal Adams
Normally Bleeding Cool is good for a cheap laugh or two, and provides entertainment. Presumably enough for the average of two posts read per visitor for a total of 1 minute 59 seconds. So you can see that Bleeding Cool isn’t normally a source for what we call “long form” reading. And as around 56% of the traffic is from the United States, where the publisher of Bleeding Cool, Avatar (“for all your torture porn needs”) resides, perhaps that isn’t an important issue. However, sometimes BC steps away from snippets of nonsense business and publishes something, that in more able hands might be called criticism. And today they have published possibly the stupidest article of all time “The Batman And The Daredevil – Much More Than Miller.” If, in fact, it isn’t the stupidest article of all time, could you please submit your candidates for the stupidest article of all time. Because we are quietly confident that this will be hard to beat.
Anyhoo, here’s an early taste:
“Batman and Daredevil. Two characters that share a lot of similarities, yet very different at the same time. Both were kind of constantly bordering on campy territory before Frank Miller was able to leave his mark on each character.”
That’s right folks – you read it here first. The work on Batman of Bob Kane, Bill finger, Jerry Robinson, Dick Sprang, Julius Schwartz, Denny O’Neil, Len Wein, Steve Englehart, Marshall Rogers and Terry Austin – all for nothing until Frank Miller “rescued” Batman.
Don’t worry, though, this guy is just getting started. The well-known camp-fest Daredevil. Take that, Man Without Fear:
“Daredevil was a character that definitely suffered from lack of direction and frankly, good ideas for years. From the ridiculousness of the “Mike Murdock” storyline where Matt pretended that he was his own twin brother to fighting villains like Stilt Man and the Owl, the writers really did hero no favors. The book suffered
“Campy” Joker by Jerry Robinson
from bad storyline to bad storyline for close to 20 years before Miller intervened and transformed the character into the true “Man Without Fear” we know love.”
You read it right: Wally Wood, Joe Orlando, Gene Colan, Bill Everett, Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby, John Romita Snr, Roy Thomas, Steve Gerber, Gerry Conway, Marv Wolfman, Gil Kane, Jim Shooter, John Buscema. oh, and Stan Lee – not a decent story or piece of art between them. Of course, this guy’s hero, Frank Miller, would probably be a bit pissed off, what with him dedicating Daredevil 181 to Wally Wood.
So basically in the first paragraph of the article he manages to insult just about anyone who’s anyone in comics. But it’s not all just arrogance and stupidity. There’s a huge quantity of inaccuracy in there as well.
“Frank Miller was able to turn Daredevil from one of the worst comics to one of the best instantly.”
Given that Miller’s first issues were written by Roger McKenzie, I think he might have something to say about that. McKenzie came on board on issue 151, writing the title until 166. Miller came on board at number 158, continuing a storyline that McKenzie had started, and bringing across Klaus Janson, who had been inking the dreadful Gene Colan, presumably doing some sort of campy nonsense. Mr Janson, of course, has no part in the success of Miller at all.
“Campy” Daredevil by Wally Wood
“The book was so popular in the late 2000s that almost any character that was introduced in the book got its own miniseries or book. Some of these characters include Iron Fist, Punisher (Who had not been seen in the mainstream Marvel universe in a few years), and Black Panther.”
Well, we’re through the looking glass now. This must be news to the shade of Jack Kirby, who introduced the Black Panther in Fantastic Four 52 in 1966. I imagine Roy Thomas and the late Gil Kane, those talentless no-hopers, who actually introduced Iron Fist in Marvel Premiere 15 in 1974 wouldn’t be too pleased either. I like the fact that the Punisher hadn’t been seen in the mainstream Marvel universe in a few years as well. Put your answers in the comments to that one…
Guys, I could go on, but there is not a paragraph that does not have a mistake in it. From the acclamation of “great stories” such as Secret Wars (!), to “Since then, though the status quo has changed with other donning the cowl for a time such as Dick Grayson and Jim Gordon, Batman has been one of the most consistent characters” (interesting use of “consistent” there sonny).
And here’s the serious bit: Many people criticise the mainstream media for misrepresentation of the facts, and that’s beyond doubt (leave your address in a comment if you’d like a list). But if fan sites can’t even get the small stuff right, what can we expect? There is an editor at Bleeding Cool, and they should do some editing. I’m not criticising some misinformed fanboy who wanders off the street with a poorly written, badly researched, and incredibly inaccurate screed about his man-crush Frank Miller. I’m criticising the people who allow him to print this astonishing nonsense. I have no trouble with Bleeding Cool printing nonsense click bait for the gullible. If that’s what gets you 4.2 million readers, then that’s what you do, if that’s what you want. But I’m old enough to remember when people loved comic books, and did proper research to inform you about their past. This article is an insult to anyone’s intelligence. More importantly, it’s an insult to the memory of a lot of creative people who went beyond “the bottom line” of what they could do, to try and deliver something memorable, in a format that was derided by most people. They are thanked for this by writers who can’t be bothered to get off their arse and use the Internet do some basic research, and people who can’t be bothered to proofread their own articles for egregious errors. In some ways this is funny, in some ways it’s pathetic. But for God’s sake, if you can’t be bothered to do the research don’t write about stuff you don’t understand, and if you can’t be bothered to edit things and fact check don’t publish things that you don’t know about. Now I know someone will pipe up “Well, it’s just his opinion.” It’s not: you can have your own opinions, but you can’t have your own facts. Man up and apologise.
UPDATE: There has been a lot of bad feeling about this post, some of it frankly hilarious. We’ve collected it for you with a director’s commentary HERE. Especially hilarious is where Rich Johnston, for it is he, asks us where OUR criticism of Avatar is, and we show him.
Gene Colan – in no way responsible for the 150+ successful issues of Daredevil that Preceded Frank Miller
Peter Mann
You must be logged in to post a comment Login
Leave a Reply
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Happy guy
August 7, 2016 at 10:52 am
Dude, did Rich spurn your advances or something? How pathetic are you to waste this much time and effort on something you hate so much. Kind of sad.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 12:54 pm
How pathetic are you defending a half-wit on this site? Some of us care about things like accuracy and some basic level of quality in writing: you don’t. Have a good life, “Dude”.
Lucas Baker
August 7, 2016 at 2:04 pm
I see the idiots are out in full force. As usual, playing the man, not the argument. “Did Rich spurn your advances or something?” Way to not address the criticism in any way. I think we know who loves Rich here.
The Man With No Head
August 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm
If you are looking for the stupidest article that Bleeding Cool has every published, I’m sure there must be something to choose from in here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/?s=tripwire+20th
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 2:38 pm
I see we’ve gone from personal attacks to whataboutery. So, to quote Rich’s other defender: how sad are you to do this research just to defend him? Do you think “editors’ should take responsibility for the quality of their “journalism”? Do you think the life work of decent people like Gil Kane and Gene Colan should be trashed by a semi-literate? You can play this game as much as you want but you can’t get away from the lack of any kind of standards that allows articles like this to be printed. Up your argument: what specifically is incorrect?
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 3:48 pm
Hello! I know who really loves Bleeding Cool, and that’s Tripwire Magazine! And they are our friends, they say as much! http://www.tripwiremagazine.co.uk/headlines/dc-comics-looking-relaunch-retitle-books-2016/.
In this case, it’s a piece by a new writer and I think it’s absolutely justifiable for criticism. Happy Guy, I hope you stay happy, this is just part of the usual rough and tumble one must expect from the internet. Bleeding Cool does not have a house voice, and as is also pointed out here, Joel Meadows owner of Tripwire has written opinions for us – though I wouldn’t describe anything he’s written as stupid. But there are all sorts of people who write for it, of differing levels of experience, an encouragement to learn on the job – and a lively and robust message board to take everyone to task and account! There’s probably a loosening of strings at the weekend, a chance for people to let your hair down and I think that has benefits too.
Folk who write for BC are regularly headhunted by Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, CBR, Comics Alliance, Comicbook.com, Monkeys Fighting Robots or others – indeed one just got hired by Oni Press yesterday. But it all has to start somewhere.
Peter, if you really don’t like a piece, hopefully there will be another one along in a few minutes that you might prefer. I hope you better appreciate the piece about the new Woking exhibition that ran this morning. But continue to hold our feet to the fore, I appreciate that as well. And I’m glad you think my guesswork as “inspired”, you are too kind.
But no, this is clearly not the stupidest post on Bleeding Cool. I once wrote one, at Kieron Gillen’s insistence, about the high price of a glass of wine at a hotel bar. Of maybe the one where I pointed out that Bryan Hitch’s Batman would be against hospitals because there was a chance they would treat criminals.
Certainly if there is a stupidest post at Bleeding Cool, I would at least hope that I wrote it.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 4:30 pm
Rich: I have nothing against BC – it is what it is. But when BC wanders out of its niche it’s not just embarrassing, it’s insulting. To have someone give a blanket dismissal of (for example) Gene Colan’s work – and that’s not the exception in this atrocious piece of writing, it’s the rule. There’s a good chance Miller has picked up more for his version of Batman than Jerry Robinson and Bill Finger (to list two examples). All of them took the time to do better than “good enough.” We live in a world where, increasingly, “good enough” is a standard to be aspired to, rather than the rock bottom we should expect – look at the comments above yours. It’s all “bants” right? I have zero problems with a critical article: I just expect it to be well researched and well argued. If that’s beyond the editorial remit of BC, and “there’ll be another one along in a minute” fine: then just don’t run them. Run the collection of click bait, rumours and inspired guesswork that is your metier. Just don’t let know-nothings diss the work of honourable men and women who created what he loves and did so with no rights to their creations, no health care, no insurance, and mostly no reputation outside of the world of comic fans.
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 4:50 pm
If you value critical arguments that are well researched, then you failed in this from the beginning. “Bleeding Cool is an unsavoury stew of stuff that ranges from the fully made up (most of Rich’s” theories” about comics), through inspired guesswork, to the occasional news item that is, well, news”
For a start nothing is every fully made up, aside from April Fool’s articles.
Speculation, is occasional, however. But any speculation is labelled as such and our working out laid out for people to form their own judgments from the available material.
Bleeding Cool does however run scoop after scoop ahead of better funded, better resourced, better connected sites who work their relationships under a PR miasma.
And the “occasional “news” item” is wrong – quote marks aside, the majority of articles on Bleeding Cool are news items.
You have here an issue with one article by a first time writer, and I don’t necessarily disagree with your critcism. However, I think that your reaction is egregious, like an overeaction of an immune system, disproportionate to the offending article.
Basically, you’re lupus.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 5:13 pm
Well, excuuuse me. Nothing is “fully made up aside from April Fool’s articles.” Can you see what’s wrong with that sentence, and why it validates what I said? Probably not. Rich, you make stuff up. You may think it’s “real”, but what happens in your mind isn’t reality, you’re often wrong, and that’s kind of the definition of making things up. Your “Scoops” on the funnybook business and your “PR miasma” frankly concern me less than zero, argue it out with the other sites. I notice that your first post detailed the successes your staff have with mainstream comics companies, so evidently they don’t hate you that much. I’d guess they see you as a useful idiot for “leaks” etc. And how about the “PR Miasma” from the premier supplier of torture porn and tit ‘n’ ass comics, your publisher, Avatar? Last time you ran a critical article on them was? If your site sucked up to Avatar creators any more you’d be in someone’s small intestine. If you want a detailed critical piece on BC I’ll give you one though. And I’ll take the time to do my research.
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 5:45 pm
>Well, excuuuse me. Nothing is “fully made up aside from April Fool’s articles.” Can you see what’s wrong with that sentence, and why it validates what I said?
No, I am specifically using the territory and language of your argument. Nothing, aside from April Fool’s Day articles, is made up. If there is speculation, it is labelled as such.
Being wrong isn’t at all the same as making things up. Given half an hour I’m sure I could find plenty of items at Tripwire that are wrong, without being made up. Actually,. let’s try 30 seconds.
http://www.tripwiremagazine.co.uk/headlines/cut-to-the-quick-marvel-announces-new-blade-series/
There you go. Announcing Blade coming out last October. It didn’t. Now you didn’t make that up. But you were wrong.
>I notice that your first post detailed the successes your staff have with mainstream comics companies, so evidently they don’t hate you that much. I’d guess they see you as a useful idiot for “leaks” etc.
Or they just recognise the skills of the writers. But Bleeding Cool is banned from press events by Marvel, DC and Image on a regular basis. And unlike Tripwire, we don’t get boxes of review copies of DC hardcovers which we then sell unread at comic marts 😎
>And how about the “PR Miasma” from the premier supplier of torture porn and tit ‘n’ ass comics, your publisher, Avatar? Last time you ran a critical article on them was?
Probably the Gendercrunching column. But premier publisher of tits and ass Avatar Press? I don’t think you’re aware of what Avatar Press publish. Providence? Uber? War Stories? Modded? Codename Pru? Extinction Parade? Crossed and Crossed +100 could be defined as torture porn, but their remit seems wider, certainly as far as writers Garth Ennis, Alan Moore and Si Spurrier are concerned. And they are hardly erotic in their treatment of nudity.
>If your site sucked up to Avatar creators any more you’d be in someone’s small intestine.
How does Tripwire treat Alan Moore, Kevin ONeill, Garth Ennis, Si Spurrier, Kieron Gillen etc? Is it sucking up when they are really good comic book creators?
>If you want a detailed critical piece on BC I’ll give you one though. And I’ll take the time to do my research.
Mote and beam, sir, mote and beam.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 6:41 pm
If “April fools day articles” are made up then what I said stands, doesn’t it? You run stuff that’s made up. Can’t you read? I’m sure there is stuff on Tripwire than’s wrong. That’s just whataboutery, and seeks to absolve you from running your appalling article – just as by changing the byline from “Posted by Rich Johnston” to “Posted by Bleeding Cool Staff Writer” on the second day of having it up you seek to absolve yourself from editorial responsibility.
Are you seriously positing that people hire staff from BC because they “just recognise the skills of the writers”? Your writers, you included are pretty dire at the best of times. At the worst of times, they are incomprehensible. The quality of writing on your site is an industry-wide joke.
I am indeed aware of the full “range” of Avatar, and I know that you are contractually obliged to regard it as great art, but mostly it’s arse. Does Tripwire criticize it? Let’s see, oh, here you go: http://www.tripwiremagazine.co.uk/feature/i-skull-crossed-100-sexing-brown/. Critical enough for you? There’d be more if we got review copies.
I love that you use the fact the editor of this site has to sell any review copies he does not keep to make ends meet as a criticism. More playing the man not the argument. You seem to get enough dumb shit to spend considerable time filming yourself with it. Yes this site gets things wrong – so do all websites, newspapers, magazines etc. It’s part of the problem of journalism. Even the New Yorker has failed. Everything can’t be checked. That doesn’t mean nothing should be, which seems to be your modus operandi. If you had any conscience you’d take your crap down, or defend it. That you do neither is very revealing.
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 8:27 pm
No, I don’t believe that April Fools Day articles can be used to be representative of any site as somewhere that “makes things up” as some kind of wider criticism. And yes, definitely, people have used their work on BC to show off their skills when applying for work, I just had to write another reference letter. I never asked if Tripwire criticised Avatar Press, I’m sure you do – why would I even ask that? You asked it and then answered your own question. Something else you got wrong. The equivalent question would be, I suppose, does Tripwire the website ever criticise the print output of Tripwire? And no, I’m not here to defend another’s writing. But I will point out the repeated claims you got wrong here when you did so.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 9:00 pm
“How does Tripwire treat Alan Moore, Kevin ONeill, Garth Ennis, Si Spurrier, Kieron Gillen etc?”
“I never asked if Tripwire criticised Avatar Press”
Just how we treated people who worked for Avatar. I apologise. You are right. See how easy that is – try it in relation to your crap article. Anyhow, now you know treat them. The answer is “fairly, because we don’t work for Avatar.” Here take another look: http://www.tripwiremagazine.co.uk/feature/i-skull-crossed-100-sexing-brown/
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 9:15 pm
“Anyhow, now you know treat them”?
BTW, on Facebook, Joel tells me that you do tend to overreact to things. That’s what I was referring to with the lupus analogy.
Peter Mann
August 7, 2016 at 9:19 pm
See what I mean – anyone can make a mistake. I just made one. See the difference – I’m admitting it, not fannying around with a bunch of disingenuous toss. As I said – man up, apologise, stop trying to dodge responsibility, and take the post down. It’s wrong.
Richard Johnston
August 7, 2016 at 9:55 pm
After you.
Robert
August 8, 2016 at 1:06 am
Bleeding Cool has tons of ridiculous and poorly researched “articles”. It really is quite sad. I’m glad there is someone taking the piss out of them.
Peter Mann
August 8, 2016 at 8:53 am
Thanks Robert. I wasn’t (originally) taking the piss – I’m just fed up with “journalists” who can’t separate opinion from facts, and felt the original poster was traducing the work of a lot of fine writers and artists who couldn’t defend themselves. Of course a little mockery may have crept in when Rich + Acolytes (sadly still thrashing this out on Facebook apparently – still clueless as to the difference between fact and opinion) joined in. Just to make it plain, not attacking the writer’s IMHO daft opinions, just that the article is a fact-free well of stupidity.
JohnnyHell
August 8, 2016 at 11:45 am
Ask Rich about how he blocks people’s accounts when they call him out in the comments for making ‘jokes’ where child abuse is the punchline. Horrid man.
Peter Mann
August 9, 2016 at 3:56 pm
HI Johnny – I would, but Rich seems to have stopped talking to me.
JohnnyHell
August 12, 2016 at 11:34 am
Link: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/04/04/the-final-amazing-spider-man-dead-no-more-image-but-is-there-someone-missing/ – utterly disgusting.
Peter Mann
August 13, 2016 at 4:31 pm
Well, I hadn’t seen that before. Yes, it is very disgusting and a weird use of editorial fiat (to be kind).