Mark Rylance Talks BBC’s Wolf Hall: The Mirror And The Light

An Elizabethan Guard Dog

The BBC’s adaptation of the second part of Hilary Mantel’s Wolf Hall, Wolf Hall: The Mirror And The Light, starts soon and here’s Mark Rylance talking about it…

Where did we leave Cromwell at the end of the first series?

We left Cromwell right after the execution of Anne Boleyn. She was someone who he really liked because she was intelligent and cultured, so I think it was quite tragic for him. This series begins right at the same moment, with a different perspective of the execution. Cromwell is a guard dog and becomes increasingly required to be a brutal guard dog for his master, but he never really loses his compassion and empathy for other human beings.

Can you tell us about the women in Cromwell’s world?

I think Cromwell gets on with women better than men. There are a number of very strong women in this series: Jane Seymour, who you get an impression in the first series that Cromwell is falling in love with, and then has to step back when he witnesses Henry VIII falling in love with her. We also have Lady Mary, the daughter of Henry’s first wife, Katherine of Aragon, who is a fascinating character. She was just a young girl in the first series and now is showing all the intelligence of a ruling person. In the first series the concern was whether Anne would survive or not, but this time it’s my head that’s approaching the scaffold through the series.

Who are Cromwell’s allies and enemies?

His primary enemies are the old families – the Courtenays and the Poles are not friends of Cromwell, primarily because they see the Tudor dynasty as a blip in the much longer dynasties of their families. They don’t like the idea of a common man rising up and replacing many posts in the governance of England with people of merit rather than people of aristocracy. Cromwell is increasingly on his own. Jane Seymour and her family are allies because they feel Cromwell has been part of their success. One of his wards, Rafe Sadler, is definitely an ally. Others are perceived allies, most of them people who Cromwell has helped to move forward, but in the end turn out to be something different.

What is Cromwell’s relationship with Henry like?

It’s very nice to be playing with Damian Lewis again, and his very subtle and mysterious Henry VIII. He was raised to be Archbishop of Canterbury because his brother Arthur was going to be King, and then is thrust into being an earthly monarch rather than a heavenly advisor. He’s very sensitive and very powerful, so there’s that appeal of working for someone who has the power to affect enormous good and if you catch him in the right mood then great things can happen. It’s a remarkable thing that he has advanced a person like Cromwell because of his merit and ability. Cromwell was a very early activist in trying to get English translations of the Bible into every man and woman’s hand. This sounds natural now, but this was a very dangerous thing at the time, and people are being burnt left, right and centre. It’s quite a thing to act in this story and to come into touch with just how very violent our society was 500 years ago. We’re still pretty violent now, but this was intense. Cromwell is walking the line, very close to that being his fate. I don’t know how you would prepare yourself for that.

What was it like working with Peter Kosminsky again?

Peter Kosminsky and I go back to the first time he wrote and directed a fiction. He began with very important documentaries and he’s always been a very brave storyteller. He doesn’t use fiction to escape from things, but rather to amplify or give focus to what’s happening in the present times. This is the fourth large series we’ve worked on together and it’s very much like working with a brother. It’s the closest relationship I’ve had in filmmaking. He’s impeccably organised and wonderfully flexible to what the actors bring to the scenes. He visits you every morning in the makeup truck to find out how you’re feeling.

And you filmed at lots of fantastic locations…

A delightful part of the job is these curious places. When I hit hard times I will do a Cromwell tour for American tourists coming to England – that will keep me going in my old age! To play Thomas Cromwell in the Great Hall at Hampton Court where he lived and worked is very spooky. You get a shiver up your spine walking in the places where they walked and lived. It’s interesting to see this fantastic palace of power, and now it’s empty and all the politicians are in Westminster or at Downing Street. How all that power fades, how it all just dissolves and reappears in other forms. These remarkable buildings are in many ways a bigger star of the programme than we are.

Does Cromwell see his downfall coming?

I think that’s a good question for the audience to consider, it’s one of the delights you’ll have watching the programme. I think he gets tired and there are times when he fantasises for a different life. He’s always aware that something bad could happen. You are reaping great benefits, great wealth, but you are dealing with people who are trying to put a knife in your back. You’re dealing with a very violent regime that is sustained by violence. And you are an agent of that regime.